Re: [ba-poker] You've got to know when to fold 'em

["Stephen H. Landrum" <slandrum(deleted the rest)>]

At 10:32 AM 12/1/2004, Ajax Green wrote:
[ ... ]
> So I've been playing a semi-weekly home game with 6 or
> 7 friends , $25 buy-in, and I've won it a bunch of
> times, mostly from luck, though I have read some
> books, including the fabled SLANKSY (sp).
>
> I have also been watching way too much 'Celebrity
> Poker Showdown', because I love b and c-list
> celebrities (why can't they get Charles Nelson Reilly
> to play?). I'm sure it's making me play worse, but
> I've grown fond of Phil Gordon, and try to play in
> such a way that he would approve.

I feel kind of sorry for you if that's a real goal.  Ultimately, it is your 
pocketbook that tells you whether you are a winning player, not approval 
from some authority figure.

> I played last friday's game with a Phil Gordon
> announcing in my head. "Nice aggressive play by Ajax
> right there, that's really going to make them think
> about staying in this hand" and stuff like that.

You probably should do some reading on the game, so you have something 
other than a celebrity announcer's voice to fall back on.  So little of the 
game is exposed and so few of the hands are shown on Celebrity Pocker 
Showdown that you are unlikely to learn much useful from the show.  As a 
piece of entertainment, it's fine if you like that sort of thing.

> I was dealt "cowboys" as the opening hand - I always
> take this as a good sign, a strong first-hand, but I
> raised pre-flop and chased everybody out. A good play?
> $1.50 win on my pair of Kings? Maybe it was the right
> thing to do, since later in the game this one guy got
> pocket Aces TWICE and lost both times...

You are focused way too much on the outcomes of single hands here.  Also, 
what's much more important than losing with aces is how your friend 
lost.  If he got his money in when he was ahead and got drawn out on, then 
he most likely played it correctly.  If he was always getting his money in 
after he was already beat, then he may have been playing them incorrectly.

> After that I tried to play some drawing hands and
> failed leaving me pretty short-stacked not one orbit
> into it. Ouch! Time to tighten up.

That's the problem with the lure of the drawing hands.

> DO THE TIGHTEN UP (by Archie Bell and the Drells)
>
> So I waited for some good hands. I got ace/jack suited
> and raised with two short-stacked callers. Flop came
> with a jack and two rags. A guy went all in, the other
> stack folded, and I called. He had two queens
> (Hiltons, right? the Hilton sisters!) and I figured I
> was done, but the turn came a jack, and the river an
> ace - I beat his hiltons with aces full of jacks (or
> is that jacks full of aces?), sorry pal.

That's jacks full of aces.  You name the 3 of a kind first since that 
determines the rank of the hand.  If after you made jacks full of aces, 
another card were to come and it was a queen, your opponent would have had 
queens full of jacks, beating your jacks full of aces.  I know you made the 
full house on the river, but was just showing an example.

> I was on a roll after that, playing aggressive and
> making people think. I knocked my pocket aces friend
> out with some more aggressive play.

In the absence of knowledge in a situation, aggression often is the better 
choice, but isn't always the case.  You will often find games in the 
cardrooms where aggression gets severely punished by a loose passive table.

> Then I got bored and paid to see the flop with
> jack/five hearts (I am a sucker for suited cards,

That's a serious leak in your game.

> and
> people rarely raise pre-flop in this game. Also,
> sometimes you have to play bad hands. I don't know
> why, you just do!).

Actually, if you don't know why you are doing it, then you shouldn't.

> Flop came king/king/trey with two hearts, giving me a
> four flush. Person to my right bets - I put her on
> three kings and the bet is not too dear, so I figure
> fuck it, I will pay to see the turn, maybe I will pull
> out a flush.

If you are already facing 3 kings, then you are now drawing for 8 cards 
instead of 9 because one of the flush cards makes your opponent's full 
house.  Unless of course you are already facing a full house, in which case 
you are drawing completely dead.

> Of course I do. I get another heart and raise my
> neighbor all-in. Oops!
>
> She had king/trey, she flopped a boat and was slow
> playing me, ha, ha, nice one.

Let's see, she bet the flop, and you raised, and she had to have bet the 
turn since you said you raised her all in, that certainly doesn't sound 
like she slow played you at all, but rather you threw your chips at her.

> I was out in fifth place, my lowest showing yet, but
> feeling good about a fun game. The worst part is of
> course spending the last four days going over her play
> in my mind trying to figure out how I could have read
> her boat better.

You shouldn't have played the hand in the first place.  It may well have 
been impossible to read the situation, and had you been against a good 
player, you probably could not have read it.  Reading the situation in this 
case should not have been a concern since you shouldn't have been in this 
situation.

> There has to be a way! I just wasn't
> paying enough attention, I guess, and not thinking
> about boats, even though I'd just sucked out those
> Hiltons with mine own.

If you are playing against players that give a lot of information about 
their hands, you can win by reading situations.  But you can win more by 
learning some of the basics of the math behind the game.  If you can 
combine knowledge of the math of poker with good reads, then you will 
quickly become a top-notch player.

> I keep thinking about that damn song, too. "You got to
> know when to hold em. Know when to fold em." it's so
> true! You got to know when to fold em.

Usually it's long before you get in trouble with them.

--
Stephen H. Landrum <slandrum(deleted the rest)>