Re: [ba-poker] You've got to know when to fold 'em

["David S. Heller" <david(deleted the rest)>]

A basic question to ask yourself when you play a hand is, "what am I hoping
to flop?".  With a J5s, flopping a flush is very rare, and even if you do
it, there is still an A, K, and Q of your suit available to an opponent, who
might have flopped a higher flush, or a draw to a higher flush that will
then come home often enough to cost you money.  Oops.  Otherwise, the flop
almost has to contain a J5, JJ, or 55 to give you much of a chance.  These
are all very rare.

The most likely outcome of calling preflop with J5 is that you fold on the
flop because it is useless to you.  This will happen so often that even with
the rare miracle flop that makes you money, you will wind up with less money
in the long run because of all those little chips you throw into the pot one
by one by one, not to mention those hands that you make only to lose to
better hands.

That really is the essence of starting hand standards.  There are hands that
make money in the long run.  Play them.  There are hands that lose money in
the long run.  Muck them.

I personally think the best beginning hold'em book out there is Sklansky's
first, small book "Hold'em Poker".  Reading that starts you on the road to
thinking about the game the way it should be thought about.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ajax Green" <mostlymeat(deleted the rest)>
To: <ba-poker(deleted the rest)>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 10:32 AM
Subject: [ba-poker] You've got to know when to fold 'em


> Hi,
>
> I've been reading your (pretty quiet) list for awhile
> now, ever since becoming engrossed by the game last
> summer (while camping, go figure), and being a
> bayarean and histerical gambloor.
>
> Anyway, I wanted to introduce myself, and tell my
> story, since none of my friends want to hear about it.
>
>
> "Man, have you noticed that Ajax's stories have gotten
> more boring since he started his new hobby?" they all
> complain. They (are not players, ha, ha. )
>
> So I've been playing a semi-weekly home game with 6 or
> 7 friends , $25 buy-in, and I've won it a bunch of
> times, mostly from luck, though I have read some
> books, including the fabled SLANKSY (sp).
>
> I have also been watching way too much 'Celebrity
> Poker Showdown', because I love b and c-list
> celebrities (why can't they get Charles Nelson Reilly
> to play?). I'm sure it's making me play worse, but
> I've grown fond of Phil Gordon, and try to play in
> such a way that he would approve.
>
> I played last friday's game with a Phil Gordon
> announcing in my head. "Nice aggressive play by Ajax
> right there, that's really going to make them think
> about staying in this hand" and stuff like that.
>
> I was dealt "cowboys" as the opening hand - I always
> take this as a good sign, a strong first-hand, but I
> raised pre-flop and chased everybody out. A good play?
> $1.50 win on my pair of Kings? Maybe it was the right
> thing to do, since later in the game this one guy got
> pocket Aces TWICE and lost both times...
>
> After that I tried to play some drawing hands and
> failed leaving me pretty short-stacked not one orbit
> into it. Ouch! Time to tighten up.
>
> DO THE TIGHTEN UP (by Archie Bell and the Drells)
>
> So I waited for some good hands. I got ace/jack suited
> and raised with two short-stacked callers. Flop came
> with a jack and two rags. A guy went all in, the other
> stack folded, and I called. He had two queens
> (Hiltons, right? the Hilton sisters!) and I figured I
> was done, but the turn came a jack, and the river an
> ace - I beat his hiltons with aces full of jacks (or
> is that jacks full of aces?), sorry pal.
>
> I was on a roll after that, playing aggressive and
> making people think. I knocked my pocket aces friend
> out with some more aggressive play.
>
> Then I got bored and paid to see the flop with
> jack/five hearts (I am a sucker for suited cards, and
> people rarely raise pre-flop in this game. Also,
> sometimes you have to play bad hands. I don't know
> why, you just do!).
>
> Flop came king/king/trey with two hearts, giving me a
> four flush. Person to my right bets - I put her on
> three kings and the bet is not too dear, so I figure
> fuck it, I will pay to see the turn, maybe I will pull
> out a flush.
>
> Of course I do. I get another heart and raise my
> neighbor all-in. Oops!
>
> She had king/trey, she flopped a boat and was slow
> playing me, ha, ha, nice one.
>
> I was out in fifth place, my lowest showing yet, but
> feeling good about a fun game. The worst part is of
> course spending the last four days going over her play
> in my mind trying to figure out how I could have read
> her boat better. There has to be a way! I just wasn't
> paying enough attention, I guess, and not thinking
> about boats, even though I'd just sucked out those
> Hiltons with mine own.
>
> I keep thinking about that damn song, too. "You got to
> know when to hold em. Know when to fold em." it's so
> true! You got to know when to fold em.
>
> -Ajax
>
> ps. As for the "should I play two jacks" question from
> yesterday, I would have, under the rule of "if you are
> short stacked, you have to pick a hand and make a
> stand".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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