Re: [ba-poker] You've got to know when to fold 'em

[kubey(deleted the rest) (Ken Kubey)]

First, let me state that we are talking about a big NL ring game.

We are not talking about limit hold'em or about tournaments.
I prefer 76s over 76o in limit or tournaments.

heldar wrote:
> I understand what you are saying, Bill, and I even mostly agree with it - I
> mean, how can 76o be stronger than 76s?  It can't be, except for one thing -
> what if you suck at reading certain situations, so you can't tell where your
> opponent is at?  If such a situation were flush over flush, then mightn't it
> be better to play hands that produce unambiguous flop results - stay in or
> get out?  Perhaps lower EV, but also lower variance.

Yes, this hits the nail pretty close to the head.

I consider 76s to be a bit of a trap hand.  If you make a flush,
you will generally win a small pot or lose a big one.  Or have to fold.

Sure, if you play 7c6c and at the turn, the board is 3c-4s-Ac-5h, 
it's a *lot* better than 76o, but those situations are few and far between.

Which hand would you rather play in the blinds against a tight raiser:
JJ or 44?
I'd rather play 44.  If I hit a set, he's toast.  Otherwise, I lose little.
With JJ, I might get a flop of 9-6-3 and get into a lot of trouble.
 
mph wrote:
> I don't believe Ken is saying that 76s has higher variance but rather
> that he can't play it for a profit.

pretty much.  
 
> I wonder what people think about something like Axs for small x.  I play
> these under certain game conditions and regularly throw away a flopped
> ace in the face of aggression.  That doesn't seem any harder to me then
> ditching a bad flush.

You are comparing ditching top pair no-kicker to ditching a flush?
I find quite easy to fold one pair or even two pair in no-limit
if I face a huge raise.  Folding a flush with only 3 of the suit 
on the board is another matter.  For me at least.

Bill wrote:
>Spencer wrote:
> > We've been through this before.  As I recall, Ken's
> > reply is that he is 
> > mentally unable to treat 76s as if it were 76o.

Ding!

> Yeah, okay, then at a minimum his advice shouldn't be
> followed by other players who are trying to improve
> their game.  

Well, some people might learn something from this discussion.

You might say that it's obvious that 76s is better than 76o.
Most everyone will agree.

How about KQo vs 76o?
I think most people would agree that KQo is the better hand.

Now let's say that a tight player makes a small raise from early position.
Six people call.  Which hand would you rather play?
 
> In using the tennis analogy
[snip]
Bill says... 
If you find a weakness in your game, work on it.  Okay.  
I agree with that in most cases.

Let me try an analogy...
It's New Year's Eve.  You offer a friend glass of champagne.  
She refuses and tells you that she's an alcoholic.

Do you tell her... 
A.  just have one glass and pretend it's 7-Up.
    (play 76s, and just pretend it's 76o) or
B.  that you understand that she has a problem and that you respect
    her decision to avoid a possible catastrophe.


Ken Kubey         kubey(deleted the rest)  (650) 933-3536